Norway is in the pocket of US. The sad part are that the truth is out there for everyone to see. But people are letting them be brainwashed and becoming so ignorant that even Orwell would be surprised. If there were true leaders with integrity and wisedom - there would be more compromises and agreements. The trouble is US where Obama told the whole world that US is the one and only exeptional state. Their hybris and evilness is laid bare for all to see. Just follow the bloody traces in countrys like Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria or for that matter Serbia and now in Ukraine.
Thank you Professor Diesen! You gave again a balanced opinion. The sad thing is that fewer and fewer people really want to know. Following the narrative is comfortable for many. There seems to be a diminishing intuition for the truth and that makes it easy to just follow the narrative. Another facilitating aspect is that people aren't alone anymore. They swim and drown in the social media and control each other over there. Deviation is experienced as dangerous. Quietly trying to get the facts, observing them, thinking about them, has become rather rare, and for the habit of civilized response goes the same. I hope you will continue your invaluable work.
In my view Norway should move US missiles into Finnmark as deterrence towards fascist Russia. Its very simple. Russia has always been an imperial power in Europe with endless invasions towards west through history. Russia occupied all Eastern Europe from 1945 - 1991. Why should Eastern European states trust Russia? NATO membership has given Europe safety from Russia. Its no accident that Russia have invaded Ukraine, Georgia and Moldova. All three states not being member of NATO.
I could understand Russia having security concerns if they were not having nuclear weapons. Its the nuclear weapons which keep the security balance in order.
Poland and Germany should also work for developing nuclear weapons in future to balance the threat from Russia.
«Det var Storbritannia og USA, som motsatte seg forhandlinger. Davyd Arakhamia - han var sjefsforhandleren til Ukraina i de tidlige forhandlingene, og han har selv sagt at Boris Johnson reiste til Kyiv for å fortelle ukrainerne at de ikke burde inngå noen fredsavtale, 'let's just fight' var hans ord.»
Utsagnene er identiske med Russlands påstander. På slutten av videoen nedenfor ser du den ukrainske utenriksministerens kortversjon (2). Den må dere mene er feil?
Det samme gjorde Putin under Tucker Carlson-intervjuet tidligere i år. Da hadde Moscow Times en grei oppsummering:
Putin repeated a claim by David Arakhamia, Ukraine’s lead negotiator, that Boris Johnson dissuaded Ukraine from signing a peace deal that would have ended the war in its first few months, saying it was “better to fight Russia.”
Johnson has dismissed this allegation as “total nonsense and Russian propaganda.” The British government said Johnson warned against negotiating with Russia “on terms that gave credence to the Kremlin’s false narrative for the invasion, but stressed that this was a decision for the Ukrainian government.”
Arakhamia says his comments have been distorted by the Kremlin, claiming his remark to “just fight” Russia was made in a discussion of how best to repel Russia’s army. He also stressed that political decisions such as whether to sign a peace deal were the “sovereign right of the Ukrainian leadership.” (3)
- Han påstår det var Vestens feil at forhandlingene brøt sammen. Hvis du synes du har hørt den før, så stemmer det: Litt som da Mearsheimer skrev sin kjente artikkel i 2014, hvor det het at «The Ukraine Crisis Is the West's Fault.» Altså: Russland er bare et stakkars offer.
Så til saken. Polygraph (Voice of Americas faktasjekker), har oppsummert dette slik:
----
In his TV interview, Arakhamia, who led the Ukrainian delegation at the peace talks with Russia in Belarus and Turkey in 2022, revealed that in the spring of 2022, Russia proposed a deal under which it would end its war against Ukraine if Ukraine dropped its plans to join NATO and declared neutrality:
“They were prepared to end the war if we agreed to – as Finland once did – neutrality, and committed that we would not join NATO,” Arakhamia said in the interview.
However, he noted that Ukraine’s NATO aspirations are written in its Constitution, which would have to be amended if its NATO bid were abandoned. He also said that Ukraine did not trust Russia to stick to such an agreement:
“There is no, and there was no, trust in the Russians that they would do it. This could only be done if there were security guarantees.”
Arakhamia did say that Johnson, during his trip to Kyiv in early April 2022, told Ukraine’s leadership it should “not sign anything with them at all, and let's just fight." However, he indicated that Johnson’s advice was just that, not an order, and that Ukraine’s negotiations with Russa were “not managed in any way” by the U.S. or other Western governments:
“[W]e consulted, of course - we understood that we cannot win the war by ourselves, so we definitely need to consult with them on this issue. And they actually advised us not to go for any ephemeral security guarantees, which at that time were impossible to give at all."
(5, det opprinnelige TV-intervjuet med Arakhamija i kilde 6)
-----
Myth Detector (verifisert faktasjekker for Facebook) - det er mer i artikkelen, men her er deres kortversjon:
-----
The claim that the Russia-Ukraine peace talks failed because of Boris Johnson’s position is manipulative. In fact, the interview of Davit Arakhamia reveals that the Ukrainian side was not going to agree to the agreement even before Johnson’s call, noting that the British Prime Minister did not put pressure on their position.(6)
-----
Ellers var det en meget grundig gjennomgang i Foreign Affairs i april i år om hvorfor forhandlingene mellom Ukraina og Russland brøt sammen ( 8 ). Her ble det også slått hull på den russiske myten om at det var Boris Johnson som «tvang» Ukraina vekk fra forhandlingene.
Samme dag hadde polakken Daniel Szeligowski en viktig utfyllende tråd på X/Twitter, hvor han forklarte hvorfor han mener Russland bare drev et spill. (9)
Kort oppsummert: Møllersen fremsetter i beste fall påstander han ikke kan dokumentere.
Dere ignorerer at det kan være at ukrainerne vet bedre enn dere om hva de finner det verdt å kjempe for. Kanskje de har noe å lære, om at fred uten frihet er ikke fred, men det totalitæres falske fortelling om fred.
Som kjent var dette også høyaktuelt under andre verdenskrig. Dersom de allierte landene hadde fulgt deres oppskrift, hadde Hitler fått lett spillerom.
Som Ukrainas utenriksminister formulerer det på slutten av videoen nedenfor: «Keep supporting Ukraine, and don't buy Russian lies.»
Hey Glenn, really appreciate your sane and balanced look at reality. One thing I think even the most objective people shy away from is talking about how much the CIA plays in these types of situations. Nobody (well, maybe the Grayzone) brings up the fact that during negotiations that we all heard Boris the clown stopped, the actual "lead" of the team from Kiev was murdered in the street by the SBU, this is definitely a CIA hit. I think people really need to start naming names and to stop allowing these stupid media "spins" like a clown like Boris shut it down. It was the CIA using the Ukrainian Nazi's who shut it down
I am reading Sir Bernard Pares (prof. of Russian history, language and literature, University of Liverpool, London). "A history of Russia". 1926, revised edition 1947. After reading this well written book (Pares visited Russia more than 20 times) I think this was a must read for our "Think tanks" or "elite" But then: they don't read and only talk to eachother. I recommend this book to everyone who want to know more about the > 1.000 yo history and people of Russia.
Prof. Diesen, your article offers a nuanced view on the varied perceptions of Europe and the dangers of oversimplified narratives. Highlighting the importance of open debate and comprehensive analysis, especially regarding the Ukraine conflict, is crucial. However, it's essential to critique how Western media shapes public perception. Framing conflicts in black-and-white terms can stifle dialogue and hinder diplomatic solutions. Ignoring perspectives, like early peace negotiations, risks deepening divisions and undermining democratic values. Your call for deeper understanding is timely and much needed. Thank you.
Norway is in the pocket of US. The sad part are that the truth is out there for everyone to see. But people are letting them be brainwashed and becoming so ignorant that even Orwell would be surprised. If there were true leaders with integrity and wisedom - there would be more compromises and agreements. The trouble is US where Obama told the whole world that US is the one and only exeptional state. Their hybris and evilness is laid bare for all to see. Just follow the bloody traces in countrys like Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria or for that matter Serbia and now in Ukraine.
Thank you Professor Diesen! You gave again a balanced opinion. The sad thing is that fewer and fewer people really want to know. Following the narrative is comfortable for many. There seems to be a diminishing intuition for the truth and that makes it easy to just follow the narrative. Another facilitating aspect is that people aren't alone anymore. They swim and drown in the social media and control each other over there. Deviation is experienced as dangerous. Quietly trying to get the facts, observing them, thinking about them, has become rather rare, and for the habit of civilized response goes the same. I hope you will continue your invaluable work.
In my view Norway should move US missiles into Finnmark as deterrence towards fascist Russia. Its very simple. Russia has always been an imperial power in Europe with endless invasions towards west through history. Russia occupied all Eastern Europe from 1945 - 1991. Why should Eastern European states trust Russia? NATO membership has given Europe safety from Russia. Its no accident that Russia have invaded Ukraine, Georgia and Moldova. All three states not being member of NATO.
I could understand Russia having security concerns if they were not having nuclear weapons. Its the nuclear weapons which keep the security balance in order.
Poland and Germany should also work for developing nuclear weapons in future to balance the threat from Russia.
«Det var Storbritannia og USA, som motsatte seg forhandlinger. Davyd Arakhamia - han var sjefsforhandleren til Ukraina i de tidlige forhandlingene, og han har selv sagt at Boris Johnson reiste til Kyiv for å fortelle ukrainerne at de ikke burde inngå noen fredsavtale, 'let's just fight' var hans ord.»
Utsagnene er identiske med Russlands påstander. På slutten av videoen nedenfor ser du den ukrainske utenriksministerens kortversjon (2). Den må dere mene er feil?
Det samme gjorde Putin under Tucker Carlson-intervjuet tidligere i år. Da hadde Moscow Times en grei oppsummering:
Putin repeated a claim by David Arakhamia, Ukraine’s lead negotiator, that Boris Johnson dissuaded Ukraine from signing a peace deal that would have ended the war in its first few months, saying it was “better to fight Russia.”
Johnson has dismissed this allegation as “total nonsense and Russian propaganda.” The British government said Johnson warned against negotiating with Russia “on terms that gave credence to the Kremlin’s false narrative for the invasion, but stressed that this was a decision for the Ukrainian government.”
Arakhamia says his comments have been distorted by the Kremlin, claiming his remark to “just fight” Russia was made in a discussion of how best to repel Russia’s army. He also stressed that political decisions such as whether to sign a peace deal were the “sovereign right of the Ukrainian leadership.” (3)
- Han påstår det var Vestens feil at forhandlingene brøt sammen. Hvis du synes du har hørt den før, så stemmer det: Litt som da Mearsheimer skrev sin kjente artikkel i 2014, hvor det het at «The Ukraine Crisis Is the West's Fault.» Altså: Russland er bare et stakkars offer.
Så til saken. Polygraph (Voice of Americas faktasjekker), har oppsummert dette slik:
----
In his TV interview, Arakhamia, who led the Ukrainian delegation at the peace talks with Russia in Belarus and Turkey in 2022, revealed that in the spring of 2022, Russia proposed a deal under which it would end its war against Ukraine if Ukraine dropped its plans to join NATO and declared neutrality:
“They were prepared to end the war if we agreed to – as Finland once did – neutrality, and committed that we would not join NATO,” Arakhamia said in the interview.
However, he noted that Ukraine’s NATO aspirations are written in its Constitution, which would have to be amended if its NATO bid were abandoned. He also said that Ukraine did not trust Russia to stick to such an agreement:
“There is no, and there was no, trust in the Russians that they would do it. This could only be done if there were security guarantees.”
Arakhamia did say that Johnson, during his trip to Kyiv in early April 2022, told Ukraine’s leadership it should “not sign anything with them at all, and let's just fight." However, he indicated that Johnson’s advice was just that, not an order, and that Ukraine’s negotiations with Russa were “not managed in any way” by the U.S. or other Western governments:
“[W]e consulted, of course - we understood that we cannot win the war by ourselves, so we definitely need to consult with them on this issue. And they actually advised us not to go for any ephemeral security guarantees, which at that time were impossible to give at all."
(5, det opprinnelige TV-intervjuet med Arakhamija i kilde 6)
-----
Myth Detector (verifisert faktasjekker for Facebook) - det er mer i artikkelen, men her er deres kortversjon:
-----
The claim that the Russia-Ukraine peace talks failed because of Boris Johnson’s position is manipulative. In fact, the interview of Davit Arakhamia reveals that the Ukrainian side was not going to agree to the agreement even before Johnson’s call, noting that the British Prime Minister did not put pressure on their position.(6)
-----
Ellers var det en meget grundig gjennomgang i Foreign Affairs i april i år om hvorfor forhandlingene mellom Ukraina og Russland brøt sammen ( 8 ). Her ble det også slått hull på den russiske myten om at det var Boris Johnson som «tvang» Ukraina vekk fra forhandlingene.
Samme dag hadde polakken Daniel Szeligowski en viktig utfyllende tråd på X/Twitter, hvor han forklarte hvorfor han mener Russland bare drev et spill. (9)
Kort oppsummert: Møllersen fremsetter i beste fall påstander han ikke kan dokumentere.
Dere ignorerer at det kan være at ukrainerne vet bedre enn dere om hva de finner det verdt å kjempe for. Kanskje de har noe å lære, om at fred uten frihet er ikke fred, men det totalitæres falske fortelling om fred.
Som kjent var dette også høyaktuelt under andre verdenskrig. Dersom de allierte landene hadde fulgt deres oppskrift, hadde Hitler fått lett spillerom.
Som Ukrainas utenriksminister formulerer det på slutten av videoen nedenfor: «Keep supporting Ukraine, and don't buy Russian lies.»
Kilder:
2. https://x.com/DmytroKuleba/status/1790264015316205746
3. https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2024/02/09/5-claims-from-putins-tucker-carlson-interview-fact-checked-a84040
4. https://radikalportal.no/2014/03/13/vestlig-imperialisme-baner-vei-for-ukrainske-fascister/
5. https://www.polygraph.info/a/fact-check-moscow-twists-zelenskyy-ally-s-words-about-2022-russian-peace-deal-offer/7380585.html
6. Opprinnelig ukrainsk TV-intervju med Davyd Arakhamija: https://youtu.be/6lt4E0DiJts?si=AkmvZoQ50cCB86oR
7. https://mythdetector.ge/en/manipulation-as-if-arakhamia-said-that-the-deal-with-russia-failed-because-of-boris-johnson-s-position/
8. https://www.foreignaffairs.com/ukraine/talks-could-have-ended-war-ukraine
9. Szeligowskis tråd:
X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/dszeligowski/status/1780183950507262201
For deg som ikke er på X/Twitter: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1780183950507262201.html
Hey Glenn, really appreciate your sane and balanced look at reality. One thing I think even the most objective people shy away from is talking about how much the CIA plays in these types of situations. Nobody (well, maybe the Grayzone) brings up the fact that during negotiations that we all heard Boris the clown stopped, the actual "lead" of the team from Kiev was murdered in the street by the SBU, this is definitely a CIA hit. I think people really need to start naming names and to stop allowing these stupid media "spins" like a clown like Boris shut it down. It was the CIA using the Ukrainian Nazi's who shut it down
I am reading Sir Bernard Pares (prof. of Russian history, language and literature, University of Liverpool, London). "A history of Russia". 1926, revised edition 1947. After reading this well written book (Pares visited Russia more than 20 times) I think this was a must read for our "Think tanks" or "elite" But then: they don't read and only talk to eachother. I recommend this book to everyone who want to know more about the > 1.000 yo history and people of Russia.
Prof. Diesen, your article offers a nuanced view on the varied perceptions of Europe and the dangers of oversimplified narratives. Highlighting the importance of open debate and comprehensive analysis, especially regarding the Ukraine conflict, is crucial. However, it's essential to critique how Western media shapes public perception. Framing conflicts in black-and-white terms can stifle dialogue and hinder diplomatic solutions. Ignoring perspectives, like early peace negotiations, risks deepening divisions and undermining democratic values. Your call for deeper understanding is timely and much needed. Thank you.