I agree, the nationalism's source is the divergence that exists now between individual level and respectively the national level interests and the states' international politics especially within the EU. In my opinion we have already in Europe (EU) two identities: the national one (which is the primary) and the European (which is the second).
We can continue to add to this a human (global) identity but it cannot be ranked as third or first. The liberal viewers of the international politics just pretend to protect it because I don't see any humanity in killing civilians in Gaza or in the useless war from Ukraine. But the opposite tendency is clear.
In my opinion Europe has the chance to rebuilt itself around the two identities and by diversifying its foreign relations. We are small countries and only together we can defend our interests.
We can tell the Americans and the British that they are still our best friends :) and take care at the same time of our interests. After this.
Interesting points. The UK never had a European identity- I think that may have been part of the problem- did other individuals in European countries really have one? I agree we don't seem to have a global identity as humans apart from having every other species and individual of every species at our collective mercy and have a right to do to them (apart from our pets) just what we please.
Do I care for my very multicultural and multiethnic country of Britain? Am I proud when we win Olympic medals or the football? I'm proud that there are so many black people in the teams, though I'm white.
Socialism attempts to unite global 'workers' against the 1%. I think that there's more in this than nationalism. We are all Palestinians, all Africans, all spied on and oppressed if we have contrary views to the MIC.
When I say humanity I don't speak about what America was pretending to do when has invaded other countries (Iraq ..). The so called libeal international politics was just a pretext. If no country can oppose we go where we like and do what we like. The Americans' sin is the fact they didn't care enough about these things and now we see the issue exacerbated in Ukraine and Gaza. Because of this you cannot trust the society and you cannot trust the country. It is a dangerous country.
How many countries were "transformed" like this? None.
How many people are prostesting because of this? I don't know of any significant protest about this.
There is significant protest about US involvement in Gaza.
The American deep state is doing the proxy wars, not the American people who have been deeply propagandised.
My question was more about identities. The Germans are supporting Israelis in killing Palestinians- some say because of their guilt, though no one alive (or very few) had anything to do with the Nazi holocaust?
Jo, your wrote: "The UK never had a European identity"
- I get your point, to some extent but still a bit strange .. ? England was Celtic, like most of central Europe. Then invaded by Romans, then Danes and North-Germans (anglo-saxons), then invaded by Norwegians, Danes and Normans, and still they are not European? Come on ....
- or are your arguing that Scandinavians are not Europeans? ;-)
We are at cross purposes- yes the British are a mixed race of many ethnicities from Europe and beyond. However, while part of the European Union we never felt part of it or belonging to it, always just British- maybe because of the Channel- for whatever reason our 'national identity' was never as part of the EU.
It would also be useful to distinguish between many possible forms of reborn German nationalism. One possibility is to regain a larger autonomy vis-à-vis the US, Nato and even the EU. That is mainly what is considered in this article. There could also be the goal of playing a greater, assertive role in Nato and the EU, for example with a stronger military.
But there is also a third way : to somehow recreate what we could call a "strong solidarity" with some strongly anti-russian countries in Eastern Europe. Not only with countries, but with anti-russian movements and ethos. This can already be seen in Ukraine, where Germany seems to have nothing to say against the Banderite elements of the present Ukrainian nationalism. It can also be seen in the German attitude towards the Baltic states. The strong anti-russian laws in the Baltics - as in Ukraine- some of which contradict the rules of the EU on linguistic minorities, seem to find very few critics in the West and in Germany. Lets remind also the backing of Crotian nationalism against Serbia during the Yougoslav wars.
It is as if Germany was replaying its alliances of WWII. Some analysts even revisit, explicitly or not, the old Historikerstreit of the 80's, insisting that it was the USSR that was the main cause of the fascist reaction in Europe. This position does not seem to be tabou anymore. But this time it is often the "liberals", strangely, who are at the forefront. Annelena Baerbock, for example, came very close to identify the present German quasi-war with Russia with the war in which her grand-father participated.
I guess some, in the West, would be rather pleased if this third way, where German nationalism takes the form of anti-Russian revanchism, would develop instead of any goal of more autonomy vis-à-vis the real hegemon of our times.
“For Germany, with its destructive history of radical ethno-nationalism and fascism, idealist internationalism has an immense appeal.”
to repeat: “destructive history of … fascism”.
You may recount that no nation had a better economic and social success story than Germany 1933-1939?
Furthermore “idealist internationalism has an immense appeal.”
Well, MANY Germans - especially in the east, increasingly see this as forced down their throats. The ‘appeal’ you mention, is extremely often negative for Germans.
Good point:
“Much like its French predecessor, the US appeals to cosmopolitanism and universalism to manage an international system that upholds a US national cause.”
Friederich List was a champion of real free trade.
I agree with Glenn's assessment and would add that Russia and Germany are predestined to become allies. The current German government is an aberration worse than the Brünning government. These people are crazy incompetents and to use an old word Landesverräter. In its march to reassert its dominance, there is the thorny question of the stolen German lands in Silesia and Ostpreussen and Germany's lousy relations with Poland. These are historic lands, that suffered forced depopulation (war crimes).
“The secret of politics? Make a good treaty with Russia.”
― Otto von Bismarck
Exactly as Bismarck and Sergei Witte agreed upon. A Eurasian union from Brest to Vladivostok, as Putin later has argued for.
I agree, the nationalism's source is the divergence that exists now between individual level and respectively the national level interests and the states' international politics especially within the EU. In my opinion we have already in Europe (EU) two identities: the national one (which is the primary) and the European (which is the second).
We can continue to add to this a human (global) identity but it cannot be ranked as third or first. The liberal viewers of the international politics just pretend to protect it because I don't see any humanity in killing civilians in Gaza or in the useless war from Ukraine. But the opposite tendency is clear.
In my opinion Europe has the chance to rebuilt itself around the two identities and by diversifying its foreign relations. We are small countries and only together we can defend our interests.
We can tell the Americans and the British that they are still our best friends :) and take care at the same time of our interests. After this.
In my opinion nationalism exists in any individual but how it is expressed is different. But nationalism means to care for your country.
Interesting points. The UK never had a European identity- I think that may have been part of the problem- did other individuals in European countries really have one? I agree we don't seem to have a global identity as humans apart from having every other species and individual of every species at our collective mercy and have a right to do to them (apart from our pets) just what we please.
Do I care for my very multicultural and multiethnic country of Britain? Am I proud when we win Olympic medals or the football? I'm proud that there are so many black people in the teams, though I'm white.
Socialism attempts to unite global 'workers' against the 1%. I think that there's more in this than nationalism. We are all Palestinians, all Africans, all spied on and oppressed if we have contrary views to the MIC.
When I say humanity I don't speak about what America was pretending to do when has invaded other countries (Iraq ..). The so called libeal international politics was just a pretext. If no country can oppose we go where we like and do what we like. The Americans' sin is the fact they didn't care enough about these things and now we see the issue exacerbated in Ukraine and Gaza. Because of this you cannot trust the society and you cannot trust the country. It is a dangerous country.
How many countries were "transformed" like this? None.
How many people are prostesting because of this? I don't know of any significant protest about this.
There is significant protest about US involvement in Gaza.
The American deep state is doing the proxy wars, not the American people who have been deeply propagandised.
My question was more about identities. The Germans are supporting Israelis in killing Palestinians- some say because of their guilt, though no one alive (or very few) had anything to do with the Nazi holocaust?
With all the protests for Gaza, America is a dangerous country.
The US is dangerous because of the protests not their Imperialism?
No, there is no protest against other proxy wars, most people are under the spell of the propaganda. I don't get your point.
Jo, your wrote: "The UK never had a European identity"
- I get your point, to some extent but still a bit strange .. ? England was Celtic, like most of central Europe. Then invaded by Romans, then Danes and North-Germans (anglo-saxons), then invaded by Norwegians, Danes and Normans, and still they are not European? Come on ....
- or are your arguing that Scandinavians are not Europeans? ;-)
We are at cross purposes- yes the British are a mixed race of many ethnicities from Europe and beyond. However, while part of the European Union we never felt part of it or belonging to it, always just British- maybe because of the Channel- for whatever reason our 'national identity' was never as part of the EU.
It would also be useful to distinguish between many possible forms of reborn German nationalism. One possibility is to regain a larger autonomy vis-à-vis the US, Nato and even the EU. That is mainly what is considered in this article. There could also be the goal of playing a greater, assertive role in Nato and the EU, for example with a stronger military.
But there is also a third way : to somehow recreate what we could call a "strong solidarity" with some strongly anti-russian countries in Eastern Europe. Not only with countries, but with anti-russian movements and ethos. This can already be seen in Ukraine, where Germany seems to have nothing to say against the Banderite elements of the present Ukrainian nationalism. It can also be seen in the German attitude towards the Baltic states. The strong anti-russian laws in the Baltics - as in Ukraine- some of which contradict the rules of the EU on linguistic minorities, seem to find very few critics in the West and in Germany. Lets remind also the backing of Crotian nationalism against Serbia during the Yougoslav wars.
It is as if Germany was replaying its alliances of WWII. Some analysts even revisit, explicitly or not, the old Historikerstreit of the 80's, insisting that it was the USSR that was the main cause of the fascist reaction in Europe. This position does not seem to be tabou anymore. But this time it is often the "liberals", strangely, who are at the forefront. Annelena Baerbock, for example, came very close to identify the present German quasi-war with Russia with the war in which her grand-father participated.
I guess some, in the West, would be rather pleased if this third way, where German nationalism takes the form of anti-Russian revanchism, would develop instead of any goal of more autonomy vis-à-vis the real hegemon of our times.
Dear Glenn, this was a strange sentence:
“For Germany, with its destructive history of radical ethno-nationalism and fascism, idealist internationalism has an immense appeal.”
to repeat: “destructive history of … fascism”.
You may recount that no nation had a better economic and social success story than Germany 1933-1939?
Furthermore “idealist internationalism has an immense appeal.”
Well, MANY Germans - especially in the east, increasingly see this as forced down their throats. The ‘appeal’ you mention, is extremely often negative for Germans.
Good point:
“Much like its French predecessor, the US appeals to cosmopolitanism and universalism to manage an international system that upholds a US national cause.”
Friederich List was a champion of real free trade.
Not the fake cosmopolitan ‘free trade’.
See e.g. my article from … (1995?) 😉
- https://arno-daastol-com.translate.goog/artprof/listfree.html?_x_tr_sch=http&_x_tr_sl=en&_x_tr_tl=no&_x_tr_hl=no&_x_tr_pto=sc
With high regards.
Arno
Arno Mong Daastøl
Dr. rer. pol. (Germany) (on the realist system of Friederich List)
+ cand.oecon + cand.mag. (Norway)
I agree with Glenn's assessment and would add that Russia and Germany are predestined to become allies. The current German government is an aberration worse than the Brünning government. These people are crazy incompetents and to use an old word Landesverräter. In its march to reassert its dominance, there is the thorny question of the stolen German lands in Silesia and Ostpreussen and Germany's lousy relations with Poland. These are historic lands, that suffered forced depopulation (war crimes).
1944,2024